New version: multiplayer and chatting

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duskypack
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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by duskypack » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:43 pm

SolitaryHowl wrote:
loboLoco wrote:Our original vision for WolfQuest was as a multiplayer game. During the original development period, however, we put much more effort into the single-player missions, and as a result, there's not a great deal to do in multiplayer. And then over time, we had to place more and more restrictions on chatting in order to ensure (or at least try to ensure) a safe environment for players of all ages. And so now....multiplayer just isn't that great.

We aim to improve that with the new version:

1) We've switched to a more robust MP service (Photon), which should make MP games more robust. As part of that, we're eliminating the bugs that make Private Games finicky to join.

2) We're creating a new multiplayer map that should be a lot of fun to explore and hang out in.

3) We're planning to add co-op multiplayer to Slough Creek. That's not guaranteed yet, since we haven't gotten deep enough into the work to be sure of it, but so far we're optimistic. It would let up to five players join a game as adults (parents and older offspring), raising the pups together. (Yeah, I know everyone wants to play as pups. That's not in the plan for this new version initially for a number of reasons, but if we get lots of sales, who knows what we might do?)

But what about chat? We've added a new option, voice chat, which is obviously unconstrained by the lexicon. That will be available only in Private Games. For Open Games, we plan to offer only Phrase Chat and No Chat, and encourage players to use Private Games if they want better chat options.

So what about text chat (with or without the lexicon and bad-words blocking)? I had thought that for tablets, text chatting was not very desirable -- it'd be quite awkward having the game pause for the virtual keyboard -- but I've learned that some people really prefer text chat over voice chat. And if we do eventually release this new version of the game for Mac/Win, then text chatting is obviously attractive for many people.

So we have to figure out how to balance risks and benefits of text chat. Possibly, Private Games could have some kind of text chat option. Everybody (including me) would prefer that to be open and unconstrained by the lexicon, but I do worry some about the risks that would entail.

So: what do you think about private vs. open games with these options? What would you really like to see? Knowing what you do about the current MP situation, what risks do you think these options would create or prevent?
Maybe, help to stop inappropriate behaviour, there should be an in-game report button. When you press that button, it automatically takes a screenshot of the game, and then a pop-up shows up where you can fill in a form to report an inappropriate player. When you press the 'send' button, this report (along with the automated screenshot of the game) can be sent to a WolfQuest Admin or Moderator (maybe similar to how reports on the forum operate), so they can take care of the matter quickly and efficiently. For repeat offenders, the I.P address of the offender should be banned (which should discourage them from just creating another account). The permanent banning can be overseen by either a WolfQuest Admin, and/or a trusted/long-time Moderator. You can also look into it being doing automatically, as in looking for certain keywords in a report.

Also: Speaking as a previous mod, Moderators should be able to join ANY game (private or no) for moderating purposes. They should be able to have the option for the game to announce if a moderator is present (or not). If the game is 'full', the moderator should be able to join as just an 'observer' to moderate the chat, and should not be 'announced' to the current players (unless the moderator chooses to do so).

It is important to have a fast, effective, and efficient system of banning inappropriate users, otherwise people will take advantage of any weaknesses in the system. And, since WolfQuest is marketed towards younger kids, it is vital to ensure parents feel safe having their kids play the game. Also, whenever I recommend the game to people, I always warn them about multiplayer having inappropriate content, and I shouldn't have to do that in a game marketed towards younger people.

In regards to the co-op: that can be a good or bad idea, depending. Currently existing glitches need to be sorted out for smoother and more enjoyable gameplay. The lexicon should be disabled for this type of thing, as effective communication is vital in a co-op game, yet this is a double-edged sword...people WILL take advantage of the no-restrictions and say inappropriate things. Perhaps it can have a trial for a couple of months (or however long you choose), to see how people react to it. If the majority reacts positively, and there are only a few bad apples...those bad apples should be removed promptly from the game and the forums.

When the phrased chat is added, there should be a 'suggestion button' that a player can press which brings up a form they can fill out to suggest a new phrase. If the phrase contains a swear word or any inappropriate content, an automated system should either reject that phrase, or send a report to an Admin or Moderator to deal with.

Maybe, if finances allow, more features could be added to the game that will hopefully prevent boredom and thus hopefully reduce inappropriate behaviour or roleplaying. Things that will enhance the gameplay, and aren't just aesthetic...so things like: more missions to complete (some much more challenging than others that require teamwork and cooperation from everyone), maybe some time-trial related things (get from random point A to random point B in a certain amount of time, or do this random task before time runs out).

Those are just my views.

I agree with everything you just said <3

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by SilkenGalaxy » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:29 am

Same here, all that mentioned there is totally agreeable!

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by Wild 98 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:28 pm

i can speak for myself and my team here at search and rescue, if the text chat goes away in the online game then so will i, i WILL NOT play the game any more simply because i know all to well how important effective communication is, if i can not communicate to my fellow players in my own way then i shall not play. communication is everything in my job, peoples lives depend on me and that includes the lives of the team that i work with not just our target to save. when i can't communicate effectively people die. i will say this, i DO NOT think the phrase chat provides adequate communication for me or my team to want to play this game, i believe several other players would agree with me. so that being said i love the game, and i appreciate you guys as the developers for trying to better it, but i believe you will hurt the game more in the long run if you do decide to remove the lexicon chat, also if you don't, please add the word paramedic to it XD. this is my opinion and i hope others feel as i do. again i appreciate your concern and thank you for taking the time to read over my post.

take care and i wish you a safe and happy day

Jaymes. S

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My Role: level 3 Critical Care Flight Paramedic (CCP-f), Arctic Rescue, Mountain Rescue, Parachuting, Diving, High Angle Rescue/Helicopter Rescue.

So that others may live

"My life is hours of boredom interrupted by moments of terror" ...this game helps...
Last edited by Wild 98 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by Neamara » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:49 pm

SolitaryHowl wrote:Also: Speaking as a previous mod, Moderators should be able to join ANY game (private or no) for moderating purposes. They should be able to have the option for the game to announce if a moderator is present (or not). If the game is 'full', the moderator should be able to join as just an 'observer' to moderate the chat, and should not be 'announced' to the current players (unless the moderator chooses to do so).
Just wanted to mention that moderators are no longer required to patrol multiplayer and haven't been since June 2011 thanks to the introduction of the WolfQuest Report Team, but those mods who are willing are more than welcome to patrol and tend to the forums if they choose to do so. The bad news is that it has died down significantly and hasn't been faring very well since Cana's departure at the beginning of 2013. Consequently, the group was recently unlisted on the usergroup legend as a result- http://wolfquest.org/bb/memberlist.php?mode=group&g=22.

It's still barely going and all reports are still being dealt with despite this deterioration; if multiplayer reporting carries over to the app, then I'd agree with either rekindling the previous mod patrolling requirement or reviving/rethinking the role of the Report Team. I definitely agree with reserving an observer slot for moderators and Report Team members.

SolitaryHowl wrote:Ideally, current moderators should attend a 'training session' where they are trained as to which things are inappropriate and which things are not, and they should be given a test. This 'testing' will ensure only the more reliable/more trustworthy/or more "qualified" moderators are chosen, which can help prevent corruption in the system (ie: Moderators not reporting on inappropriate things their friends are doing in games, which can lead to resentment from other users). You could also implement 'game only' moderators, that is a special team of moderators that solely focus on moderating the game and not the forum.
The Report Team does have its own forum, so its members are well-aware of the latest jargon in that dedicated forum, and awareness of the latest word replacements were often brought to attention in the WolfQuest Game Reporting forum. Its members were chosen based on the quality of their submitted reports. As for corruption... I wouldn't disagree with some kind of logging that got uploaded to the server in such a way that it could be directly accessed and evaluated by the admin who deals with abuse reports; if player-submitted evidence was tampered, then the admin would know for sure. No clue if that's even possible.
Wild 98 wrote:if the text chat goes away in the online game then so will i, i WILL NOT play the game any more simply because i know all to well how important effective communication is, if i can not communicate to my fellow players in my own way then i shall not play.
Chat lexicon will eventually be removed from 2.5.1, leaving only phrased and disabled chat modes. You will still be able to communicate with phrased chat, though it will be more limited. If the team updates the Win/Mac version of WolfQuest, we can probably expect to see the same naughty-words filtered chat (if not similar) from the app version offered in private games. Just a matter of when if the team decides to go through with it. ;)

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by xxwarriorwolffernxx » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:52 pm

The only thing I don't really like is no chat where you can type in open games.

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by wolfstorm13 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:59 pm

loboLoco wrote:
But what about chat? We've added a new option, voice chat, which is obviously unconstrained by the lexicon. That will be available only in Private Games. For Open Games, we plan to offer only Phrase Chat and No Chat, and encourage players to use Private Games if they want better chat options.
This kind of confuses me because its saying that for open games wq plans to only offer phrase and no chat. Does that mean that you cant use the lexicon at all or just for the voice thing?
In my opinion phase and no chat takes away creativity for role playing. To tell you the truth the new people never read the titles of chats that may be confusing to a person who is new.Im not saying this to offend in any way but new people go onto chats and start to annoy the people who are playing their game and they start to, well, say things that may not be appropriate. I always try to advise new people that my chat may be confusing and they will have a better time on a wolf chat in a kind way. Instead, like some people, they say mean things or inappropriate things things to them.
The lexicon and open chats allow me to meet different people and play out a story with them while with private chats you don't know when your friends are gonna be on and may not be able to do as much. Phase chats have limited words and is hard to make a sentence and you can barely talk to your friends. For younger people this is the ideal chat and appropriate, but I would like the lexicon to be in open as well cause the private chats may not work for everyone still.
If its possible to put out a note on the rules list or some where saying for new people to read the title to check if its wolf related or appropriate instead of going onto the wrong chat. Im not saying this to offend in anyway its just my opinion but ive seen stuff like that happen in a lot of chats.
Last edited by wolfstorm13 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by Ironic » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:34 pm

When the game coming out?

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by Neamara » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:02 pm

No guaranteed release date yet, but the current estimate is from/between April - June.

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by Ironic » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:07 pm

nightangelwolf wrote:No guaranteed release date yet, but the current estimate is from/between April - June.
Thank you.

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by Neamara » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:37 pm

Ironic wrote:Thank you.
No problem, though in the future, please be sure that your posts contain no less than three words- anything below this is considered a form of SPAM. Further definitions can be found in the Forum Guidelines (http://wolfquest.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20100). Thanks! ^^;

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by Shadziulec » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:16 am

Multiplayer update would be awesome,i always wanted to play with my friends like being a pup

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by SilkenGalaxy » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:38 am

Loboloco said that you can't play as a pup, but there might be a co-op multiplayer meaning that up to five people could join a server and work as a wolf pack to take care of AI pups....which I think is a great idea!

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by RoarOriole » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:05 pm

I think a good idea would be to try and redraw/redifine the lines between inappropriate and kid friendly.

With the way that technology and media has advanced over the years, kids these days see, hear, and even speak in ways that normally wouldn't be imagined about a few decades prior. I've seen kids play far more bloody, far more revealing games than even I'm comfortable with and I'm a near decade older than they are, usually. Maybe figuring out what kinds of 'non-kid games' kids may be attracted to can help with drawin the lines for what to limit and what to just throw up as a general warning or taboo for the game. Kids these days are smart. Some are sassy and rude, but they're smart. They know most of the rules of a lot of things, it's figuring out how to get them and older audiences that may come to the game to behave that's the problem.

I think a good way to try and control a chat is for an automatic 'boot out and email' system. When certain words or sentences are used the user'd get a little flag on their screen, kind of like a mission popup, saying they're not supposed to do that. If they do it enough times they'll automatically get booted out and banned for a certain amount of time.

It'd basically be like setting a field with land mines. No matter what you do, people will try to dance around it, but eventually they will slip and fall.

It's unfair to the users that actually behave and know the limits to do it so the best way to get those that don't care isn't to give them the challenge of skirting around it, but to try and trap them at their own game. There's a lot of ways to do it, and most of it depends on just how free you'd want the users in the games to be. The more freedom you give, the more subtle the traps that will be required.

I think the subtle route would do the game good, though. Not sure how, exactly (there are plenty of things in mind, but without clearer ideas on the desirable route, it's hard to pick and sort what ways to put forward, if you get what I mean) but I do know that too tight a fence is what made MP hard and painful to play over the years. Loosening it up is what it needs.

Off topic here but I've seen several mentions of FeralHeart in a few previous posts. In terms of safety and moderation, it's not good reference material. I've heard and witnessed far more bad than I ever did good, both from the handling of troublemakers and the troublemakers themselves.

Lots of apathy there on that game. Loosening of the fence to allow a fresh breeze is what WQ needs, but FH is a borderless basin housing stagnant air. I'd highly recommend avoiding using it as reference material if possible.

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by SilkenGalaxy » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:20 pm

Shusuke wrote:I think a good idea would be to try and redraw/redifine the lines between inappropriate and kid friendly.

With the way that technology and media has advanced over the years, kids these days see, hear, and even speak in ways that normally wouldn't be imagined about a few decades prior. I've seen kids play far more bloody, far more revealing games than even I'm comfortable with and I'm a near decade older than they are, usually. Maybe figuring out what kinds of 'non-kid games' kids may be attracted to can help with drawin the lines for what to limit and what to just throw up as a general warning or taboo for the game. Kids these days are smart. Some are sassy and rude, but they're smart. They know most of the rules of a lot of things, it's figuring out how to get them and older audiences that may come to the game to behave that's the problem.

I think a good way to try and control a chat is for an automatic 'boot out and email' system. When certain words or sentences are used the user'd get a little flag on their screen, kind of like a mission popup, saying they're not supposed to do that. If they do it enough times they'll automatically get booted out and banned for a certain amount of time.

It'd basically be like setting a field with land mines. No matter what you do, people will try to dance around it, but eventually they will slip and fall.

It's unfair to the users that actually behave and know the limits to do it so the best way to get those that don't care isn't to give them the challenge of skirting around it, but to try and trap them at their own game. There's a lot of ways to do it, and most of it depends on just how free you'd want the users in the games to be. The more freedom you give, the more subtle the traps that will be required.

I think the subtle route would do the game good, though. Not sure how, exactly (there are plenty of things in mind, but without clearer ideas on the desirable route, it's hard to pick and sort what ways to put forward, if you get what I mean) but I do know that too tight a fence is what made MP hard and painful to play over the years. Loosening it up is what it needs.

Off topic here but I've seen several mentions of FeralHeart in a few previous posts. In terms of safety and moderation, it's not good reference material. I've heard and witnessed far more bad than I ever did good, both from the handling of troublemakers and the troublemakers themselves.

Lots of apathy there on that game. Loosening of the fence to allow a fresh breeze is what WQ needs, but FH is a borderless basin housing stagnant air. I'd highly recommend avoiding using it as reference material if possible.
That is a very good idea there...

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Re: New version: multiplayer and chatting

Post by SolitaryHowl » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:54 pm

Shusuke wrote:I think a good idea would be to try and redraw/redifine the lines between inappropriate and kid friendly.

With the way that technology and media has advanced over the years, kids these days see, hear, and even speak in ways that normally wouldn't be imagined about a few decades prior. I've seen kids play far more bloody, far more revealing games than even I'm comfortable with and I'm a near decade older than they are, usually. Maybe figuring out what kinds of 'non-kid games' kids may be attracted to can help with drawin the lines for what to limit and what to just throw up as a general warning or taboo for the game. Kids these days are smart. Some are sassy and rude, but they're smart. They know most of the rules of a lot of things, it's figuring out how to get them and older audiences that may come to the game to behave that's the problem.

I think a good way to try and control a chat is for an automatic 'boot out and email' system. When certain words or sentences are used the user'd get a little flag on their screen, kind of like a mission popup, saying they're not supposed to do that. If they do it enough times they'll automatically get booted out and banned for a certain amount of time.

It'd basically be like setting a field with land mines. No matter what you do, people will try to dance around it, but eventually they will slip and fall.

It's unfair to the users that actually behave and know the limits to do it so the best way to get those that don't care isn't to give them the challenge of skirting around it, but to try and trap them at their own game. There's a lot of ways to do it, and most of it depends on just how free you'd want the users in the games to be. The more freedom you give, the more subtle the traps that will be required.

I think the subtle route would do the game good, though. Not sure how, exactly (there are plenty of things in mind, but without clearer ideas on the desirable route, it's hard to pick and sort what ways to put forward, if you get what I mean) but I do know that too tight a fence is what made MP hard and painful to play over the years. Loosening it up is what it needs.

Off topic here but I've seen several mentions of FeralHeart in a few previous posts. In terms of safety and moderation, it's not good reference material. I've heard and witnessed far more bad than I ever did good, both from the handling of troublemakers and the troublemakers themselves.

Lots of apathy there on that game. Loosening of the fence to allow a fresh breeze is what WQ needs, but FH is a borderless basin housing stagnant air. I'd highly recommend avoiding using it as reference material if possible.
Those are some good ideas...

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