What will protect wolves from delisting?

Discuss wolf conservation and status.

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Fastenjaw
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What will protect wolves from delisting?

Post by Fastenjaw » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:40 am

That is a rather scary scenario to me. I can understand people killing a wolf to eat it. But the thought of wolves killed simply for their hide or just because they are considered pests? I think that is messed up. It is a lack of consideration for life to me. These animals are not property or objects, but living, breathing, hard working wolf families out there. I wish the wolf would be protected indefinitely just like our national bird is. Wolves should never become game animals just to be hunted as a sport trophy. Wolves do not kill for fun. Yet you have hunters going around saying that they do. They try teaching their kids that these animals are bad and cruel. They also say it is their job to regulate the wolf population. I think these people have nothing better to do than to go around and kill things for an adrenaline rush. Why are we protecting them if they are going to be massacred yet again? There is a risk for that. I hope they do not get delisted. They really have no chance given our modern methods of hunting.

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Post by Harmony » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:48 am

I agree,
Its a sad and true fact that these magnificent animals are being killed just for the joy of it.

''For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack” -Rudyard Kipling

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Post by ChocolateRain » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:49 am

I agree with you totally. The problem is the world will always have the people that hunt wolves for the heck of it, illegal or legal. Also, once wolves reach a stable population they're going to be taken off the endangered and they will have to be hunted to keep them stable. If not, more people will run into wolves do something completely stupid, get hurt, then blame the wolf saying they attacked them or something dumb like that. People always give wolves a bad name. Wasn't there an argument about something like this in congress? I dunno i might be obsessed. :(

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Post by Mooney » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:34 pm

Well, this board might replace my college entry essay, for this as good as anything about why or why not the world needs poison ivy.
For one thing, the Bald Eagle was delisted about a month ago, because there was no longer a need for it to be protected. The reason for why you don't see so many people hunting them is, well; eagles probably aren't the easiest things to hunt, and they're the USA's national animal. Killing one is something most people would be against.

Sadly, wolves are hunted while they're listed, and I agree it may increase by even the slightest bit if delisted. But what if they're not? WolfQuest is one of the many programs out there that are changing the image of wolves. Of course, there are still a chunk of people who know nothing, but it is shrinking. The wolf is one of the most popular animals these days among children and adults. The days of the "big bad wolf" that stalks children and is sneaky and sly are behind us, going back with each generation and new program.

Yet, if it comes to massacre once more, I doubt it will be allowed to pass so lightly as last time. Again, with so many minds changed about the wolf's image, hunters who proudly carry a record of how many wolves they have killed will not be smiled upon anymore, not looked up to. I think something like the massacres of the past can not happen today in the way they were. People will hold protests, and less hunters will participate in such a thing.

Honestly, I think the delisting of wolves will be more triumphant then disastrous.

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Post by WQ Project Coordinator » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:56 pm

It is a very interesting question because isn't delisting what the goal was when wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone and Idaho. Yet we have seen that some people are eager for the delisting of wolves for the wrong reasons. Fortunately, wolves tend to stay away from people. So even when they are delisted, I think they will be harder for people to hunt than they realize, especially after they have been shot at a couple of times.

Michelle

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Post by ChocolateRain » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:48 pm

What about the ranchers and farmers who sometimes lose their cattle to wolves? Several of them kill wolves because they're afraid they might lose more cattle which they need to make their money. I've heard ranchers using all kinds of techniques to keep wolves away but they never end up working. They don't exactly hunt wolves for sport and will probably keep killing them until some sort of method is invented which proves to work.

Anyone see A Man Among Wolves and Shaun Ellis' technique to play territorial wolf howls to keep other packs away?

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Post by pawnee » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:28 pm

I think wolves should not be hunted at all for "sport" or fur or simply because you have a game permit. To me, wolves are the north american version of great apes in intelligance and strong yet complex social bonds. few people would want to shoot a gorilla, or a dolphin because their so much like people (which is kind of selfish when you think about it), these animals are so smart and so complex that it makes such an act pointless. The alpha pair are the only ones to mate, and they`ll do so as long as their is enough food and shelter, which can be created by heavy predator control programs. Therefore people would only be creating more wolves, because when animals are given tons of food ,created by the lack of other same animals, they`ll often have more than one pair of offspring. Or in the case of wolves,coyotes, etc, more than one litter. Like bald eagles, or whales or apes, wolves, to me should be protected. If farmers or ranchers really cared about their animals then they need to keep young animals closer to home and dispose of carcasses properly. Public tax dollars goes towards protecting endangered animals, so if cattle wonder onto public land (like parks) then the rancher should be told to control His/Her animals, not simply shoot a bear or wolf.
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Post by Whitefang2331 » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:41 pm

Yes but what few people notice is that they ARE like us in many ways
They are social
They are intelligent
There are leaders
They work together to find a solution

and when they were domesticated to become the modern dog hardly anything changed. Thats why dogs always seem to fit into our lives.
I think wolves shouldnt be legal to hunt either

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Post by ChocolateRain » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:55 pm

Um the wolves are the ones wandering on to the ranchers land. But anyways It's sad to know that the wolf occupied all the lower 48 states and now only lives in a few.

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Post by pawnee » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:23 pm

Well the wolf was there first, the ranchers and wildlife service killed off all the wolves later. Also, cattle cause way more harm than wolves do, cattle eat all the same stuff that elk and deer like to eat and because their so big and...clumsy they trample the ground when they graze in one place too long. Cattle need lots of food, and lots of water and eat up resources that can go to elk, deer and other wildlife, or if you really think about it starving people. Ranchers and farmers should try to use non-lethal ways to live along side with wildlife such as using guard dogs (like feirce caucasian mountain dogs), alarms, rubber bullets etc. In one country farmers put spikey or electric shock collars on their dogs so that when a wolf went in for the kill, it would be shocked or hurt enough to learn not to repeat such an attempt.
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Post by Bleuborzoi » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:23 am

I live on a farm and while I've never had a wolf problem, I have had problems with Coyotes trying to get at the goat and rabbits. The most simple solution was to let my large dogs out (two being half wolfhound and one is a wolf hybrid), they all also wear bells on their necks so the Coyotes could hear them coming and were able to escape without fights and no one was hurt on either end.

Of course, if there was a fight there would be significant damage to both the Coyotes and my dogs. In acient times, when dogs were used to keep wildlife away from flocks of sheep, they put huge spiked collars on the dogs to keep them from getting their throats bitten, so thus this same method could be an alternitive.

The second deterant is my rather agressive horses. Several times Coyotes have been bold enough to go under the eletric fences but were quickly chased out by my horses who didn't like "that strange dog" in their pasture.

So, this being said, I don't understand farmers who would shoot a wolf when there are legitimate alternitives. Many breeds of dogs were devolped specifically to live with livestock to deter preditors. Anatolian Shepherd dogs are being used in Africa to keep Cheetah's away from farms, and even after short time biologist have noticed the Cheetah population on the rise and the farmers have been reporting less and less livestock being killed.

Wolf conservation is a big issue to me. I'm in Alaska and have very adamant anti-wolf politicians in my state (for instance, former governer Frank Murkowski listed making aireal shooting of wolves legall as one of the good things he did while he was in office). It's a huge struggle here, but not the same as down south. Here "big bad wolves" are considered pests because they eat moose and hunters want the moose meat all to themselves. While bears are being relocated, wolves are being killed as "preditor control". No matter that bears have a far higher success rate when hunting than wolves do.

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Post by pawnee » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:50 am

ya, i heard people use donkeys and llamas to prevent coyotes from getting into sheep folds and such, but not horses. I never thought a horse would be smart enough to not panic when seeing a wolf. blue, can you post some pictures of your wolf hybrid? i should start another post on that.
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Post by Nightfire » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:48 pm

It is a sad and cold truth that haunts many generations of humans and wolves(and many other animal species). Unfortunately, there are too many hunters for the good people of the world to control, and they are breeding more. But there is hope, more people are realising that wolves are friends, not fiends, and are coming to like wolves. The WolfQuest game should also help, give an insight into the world of wolves, not only by just watching them, but playing through wolves' eyes. In many countries, laws are being made to stop the poachers, such as the Endangered Species Act in the US, which protects the wolves as long as they are on the endangered species list. The only problem is, the poachers are the main reason they are on this list, and recieving the protection that they have. If we stop poachers from hunting these wolves, yes, the wolf population will rise, but, then they will get kicked off the list, and those hunters who have been lying dormant for however long it takes, will take advantage of this lack of protection and will create a wolf massacre until the wolves go on the endangered species list again. For those people who didnt understand a word I was saying, systems like the Endangered Species Act have created a cycle, which can only be broken by setting up more laws that claim a person cannot kill for sport, but only if they or any other human is in danger, or if they have to kill to eat. But there is a significant amount of hunters (one of my best friends' dads, for instance) that will, obviously, oppose this, so, nothing can be done, unfortunately, there is only one outcome that I can forsee, and it is the worst possible one, and I hate it. If anyone can see another light out of this tunnel, please post, but otherwise, I dont know what to do.

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Post by ChocolateRain » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:08 pm

You're completely right nightfire, and I still read about tons and tons of people that appose wolf reintroduction and just want to get rid of them. There are usually laws set on how much you can hunt in a period of time but they're always broken.

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Post by Black_Wolf » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:21 pm

ranchers kill wolves and other animals for they killing cattle but they're prey are almost extinct too and that is our foult
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